Sir Alister McIntosh is interviewed by Professor J.L. Roberts (Professor of Public Administration at Victoria University, Wellington).
TAPE 1 OF 3. NB: This is a RAW, UNEDITED interview.
This was recorded at the request of the BBC for their archives as Sir Alister McIntosh was the first Secretary of External Affairs in New Zealand and it traces the development of this country's political independence from the advent of it in 1935 with the Labour Government. There was no need perceived before and New Zealand was not prepared to spend money on defence. We depended on the British and the two ships stationed here soon went back to England with the outbreak of World War Two. It was seen that New Zealand
received free defence but we were expected to assist in the event of
war. Economic independence changed with refrigeration, etc. and New Zealand was
at a disadvantage after the war. The Labour Government had a different
view on trade, independence and international economy. In office in 1935
the Government was experiencing the easing of the slump and all our
trade was centred on Britain. Labour sought to alter these links by
asking for bulk purchases from Britain for stability which did not
eventuate until the war. With the outbreak of war the New Zealand Govt
was aware of the threat of fascism and the Japanese being seen as our
greatest threat in the Pacific, even though Britain never really thought
the Japanese would risk anything. We promptly sent troops to the Middle
East which were under British command and New Zealand had no real influence over
strategy until General Freyberg signed his "Charter", using it to great
purpose. New Zealand faced real independence with the fall of Singapore
and the arrival of the Americans whom we had to now rely on for defence.
A second and smaller division of troops was stationed in Fiji and New Zealand set
up large land forces but had no weapons. As a small country we were left
to the mercy of the big powers. McIntosh was the first Secretary of
External Affairs which was set up for him in 1943. They go in to discuss
post-war colonialism and imperialism which Labour was opposed to and was
setting up international trusteeship, along with Australia. The
Australian Pact of 1944 was a bit of a disaster but with having Fraser
as chairman both New Zealand and Australia's ideas were given a fair
hearing. This resulted in the British being out-voted in San Francisco
in 1945. [Interview continues on ID23268 and 23269 ]